Today I got thinking about chivalry. This was prompted by a few events: a man let me onto the bus before him, and then a different man let me off the bus before him. A bit later, my (male) friend opened a door for me to walk through first. I said thank you to all of them, but then I pondered the fact that I'm sure some women would be massively offended by these acts; inferring that the men were implying I am incapable of standing in a queue, or opening a door by myself.
It doesn't cross my mind that these men, or indeed any others, would be thinking that I'm feeble and as such need help from big strong men. If a man carried my shopping for me, I'd be grateful, because it would save me from hurting my hands and arms, but I wouldn't expect it. Equally, I wouldn't expect a man to always open doors for me; if I am faced with a closed door that I need to get through, I will open it.
It bothers me that there are women who think that feminism means hating all men. That it means fighting against men and putting them down and considering ourselves (as women) to be better and stronger and more intelligent and...well, generally better than men. It bothers me that it is frowned upon to enjoy being treated in a gentlemanly way occasionally, and to not see it as a huge insult.
I'm waffling, as always. But am I really wrong for enjoying having doors opened for me? For being flattered by it? Maybe I'm being presumptuous in believing that men are less likely to do these things for other men...but I don't think so. Thoughts?
In other news, I am officially getting old. Over the last few weeks I have been heard to say such things as "What isn't she wearing?!", "That's not a skirt, it's a belt", and most recently; "Well maybe if his hair wasn't infront of his eyes he'd be able to see where he was going!" (after an emo youth ("youth"? God, I really am old...) with perfectly 'messily' coiffed hair over one eye and half the other walked straight into me). I am also considering buying thermal underwear. No shit.
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"Maybe I'm being presumptuous in believing that men are less likely to do these things for other men"
We are less likely. To a point, anyway. I generally hold doors open or whatever for anyone, because it's polite. But I probably make more of an "effort" with ladypeople
Oh, also...
"In other news, I am officially getting old."
I thought that of myself back in September, when I looked at all the freshers and thought "wow, they look about 4"...
They were born in the nineties, the nineties and they're at uni?!
Chivalry FTW! I tend to lean towards the side of gender distinction, especially if it works in my favour...
I like chivalry. I would also consider myself a feminist, though not of the type you've described. My flatmate considers this mad, inconsistent and hypocritical. I don't think it is in the least! I don't need a man to carry my shopping, hold doors open or walk on the roadside of the pavement, but if he does so, of course it's flattering, it makes me feel like a lady. One can feel like a lady and still mind the pay gap.
Thing is, now said flatmate knows I approve of it when men do these things for me (he witnessed me being escorted to the fresher's ball by a proper gentleman), he insists on doing the same even though he's really too much of a weakling to pick up my shopping for me - but I can't stop him from taking it, and that annoys me. I'm far better able to carry my shopping than his, at least if he's carrying his as well. It's ridiculous, and wasn't the point I was making at all. I think he does it to make me feel ridiculous about my weakness for chivalry...
If I don't have to open a door because a guy has done it for me, I'm not going to complain! More than often they're just doing it to be polite and I doubt it crosses their mind they're playing to some feminists opinions - guys just don't think that way :oP
Born in '87 - that's now two decades ago. Ach,
Oh... chivalry always makes me feel like a horrendous hypocrite. On the one hand, I'm a ballroom dancer, and there's something lovely about just sticking with convention and being traditional for a bit and feeling like a lady and all that jazz. On the other hand, I tend to get fairly militant about the fact that gentlemen are entirely welcome to be chivalrous as long as they have nothing against me buying them drinks too, or opening doors for them, otherwise I tend to think that if it's beneath their dignity to accept that sort of thing why do they assume it's not beneath mine? But try telling that to people.
Otherwise, I must agree: thermals are the way forward, as are cardigans, knitting and being reduced to "nAWWWW" noises at the sight of babies. Embrace your inner granny :)
Dickie: Do you know why you make more of an effort with ladypeople?
Flix: Gender distinction, yes. Of course there are differences between men and women. But I still believe (naively?) that we can have equality in the workplace (as one example) alongside acknowledging differences.
Fiona: Hi :) And yes, I like to buy drinks/meals for menfolk too. I don't like it when they refuse to accept it. And don't worry, I am fully embracing my inner granny, plus the broodiness that becomes more and more apparent every time I burst into "nAWWWWW ohmygodlookathistinyickleHANDS" squeals...
So cute! So podgy! My Maths friends in Techno Caf' didn't understand this! And no, not all of them were male!
I don't feel I have anything to add on the chivalry/ feminism front that hasn't already been said, so I'll just make general noises of agreement...
When you're talking about holding doors open, I think you need to differentiate between holding a door open for someone to go before you, holding the door open for someone to come after you, and holding a door open so someone comes through the other way before you.
Is there a difference in chivalric intent between these three situations?
Mark: I think it's any situation in which a man allows a woman to pass through the doorway before him. So either holding it open to let her through first, or holding it open to let her through first from the opposite direction.
I think from the opposite direction I would act the same for women and men.
In terms of holding a door open for people to go through the same way, if I was, for example, showing a male visitor a workplace, I would have no hesitation in holding the door open for him. So little difference again. Common courtesy.
That's if the door opens towards you, of course.
Oh, the complexities!
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